With a guest like Joe De Sena, you know this week’s podcast is going to be an unfiltered blast of pure motivation, inspiration, and insight. Discover how Joe founded one of the most revolutionary sports movements of this century and innovate around the world as we dive deep on his “no retreat” mindset.
No Retreat: Spartan Up (ft. Joe De Sena)
Entrepreneur, athlete, and all-around fighter Joe De Sena on moving forward no matter what
OPENING QUOTE:
“What I learned early in life was that I had to put, for me personally, I had to always have a fight on my calendar. If I don't have a fight on my calendar, I'm not pushing limits.”
—Joe De Sena
GUEST BIO:
Joe De Sena is the founder and CEO of Spartan, the world's leading endurance sports brand. From Wall Street to rural Vermont, Joe turned his passion for adventure races and endurance events into the Spartan Race— one of the most respected adventure events on earth. Now a multiple-time New York Times bestselling author and host of CNBC’s new show No Retreat: Business Bootcamp, Joe’s work has been featured in Business Insider, Men’s Health, Inc., Forbes, ESPN, and the Joe Rogan Experience.
Links:
CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:
[2:30] - The No Retreat Mindset
What Joe wants his viewers and listeners to know
Joe has built his life on the idea that we all can go so much further than we think we can. When we begin to feel ourselves getting pushed, we retreat. But what if we took that feeling of discomfort as a sign to push even further? What if we never retreated? Who knows what we might accomplish, individually and as a human race.
[5:03] - Want Toughness? Practice It.
Why toughness is like a muscle
The science agrees— mental toughness isn’t something you’re simply born with, and it’s not generational. Babies born in the 1800s were evolutionarily identical to us today. They survived without the internet, without AC or heat, without the ability to have whatever food they wanted anytime. And yet, they survived. Identify the things in your life that are causing your mental toughness to atrophy, and develop exercises that will help you strengthen it.
[11:09] - Marks on the Brain
The effects of facing challenges in children
Neuroscientists have shown that between the ages of 7 to 20 years old, kids that willingly take on hard challenges in life leave marks on their brain. These lines look like train tracks— and they’re the result of making permanent changes to the parts of your brain that determine resilience. When you practice resilience— and help young people in your life practice it— you create a generation of resilient, driven individuals.
[17:22] - Put a Fight on the Calendar
Advice from legendary boxer Mickey Ward
Mickey Ward once told Joe De Sena that while he’s always in pretty good shape, whenever there’s a fight on his calendar it inspires him to take his fitness to a whole other level. What’s the ‘fight’ you can put on your calendar to inspire you to stay resilient, stay tough, and stick to your goals and systems?
[24:43] - Purpose & Resilience
Two principles connected by grit
Purpose and resilience are closely tied together. When you live your life with purpose, allowing it to drive your decisions, it strengthens your resilience because you have the confidence of knowing that the path you’re heading in is the right one for you— even if it's all uphill, through the pelting rain, with no shoes. Find your purpose and you’ll find your resilience. Develop your resilience and it will help you stick to your purpose.
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The best part? It’s completely free for Playmakers listeners. Are you ready to find our WHY in just five minutes? Take your assessment now.
ABOUT PLAYMAKERS: ON PURPOSE:
The Playmakers: On Purpose podcast is an all-access pass to a purpose-centered tribe of leaders in business, sports, and life who are on a mission of meaning and impact. The show takes purpose from an out of reach North Star to a practical and tactical exploration of how we can step into each day, ON PURPOSE, where life no longer happens “to us”, it begins to happen “for us”.
From the Why Coach of the San Francisco 49ers to your coach, take a seat at the table with sports industry executive, #1 bestselling author, personal transformation expert, turned senior leader and advisor to PurposePoint and the Why Institute, Paul Epstein, in this inspiring, yet immediately actionable podcast.
From formative stories pre-purpose to personal and professional transformation’s post-purpose, each show will share a high-energy, prescriptive blueprint to ignite impact and drive inner success, fulfillment, and purpose no matter your starting point. It’s time to meet Paul at the 50 and get ready to live and lead ON PURPOSE.
Learn more at: PlaymakersPod.com
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ABOUT THE HOST:
Paul Epstein may not be a hard charging running back on the actual football field, but his list of high-profile wins in the world of sports will have you thinking that he could be.
Paul has spent nearly 15 years as a pro sports executive for multiple NFL and NBA teams, a global sports agency, and the NFL league office. He’s transformed numerous NBA teams from the absolute bottom in league revenue to top-two in financial performance. He’s broken every premium revenue metric in Super Bowl history as the NFL’s sales leader. He opened a billion-dollar stadium, helped save the New Orleans NBA franchise, and founded the San Francisco 49ers Talent Academy.
He's since installed his leadership and high-performance playbook with Fortune 500 leaders, Founders and CEOs, MBAs, and professional athletes.
Now, as a global keynote speaker, #1 bestselling author, personal transformation expert, turned senior leader and advisor to PurposePoint and the Why Institute, and host of the Playmakers: On Purpose podcast, Paul explores how living and working with a focus on leadership, culture, and purpose can transform organizations and individuals anywhere to unleash their full potential.
Learn more about Paul at PaulEpsteinSpeaks.com
CREDITS:
Joe De Sena:
What I learned early in life was that I had to put, for me personally, I had to always have a fight on my calendar. If I don't have a fight on my calendar, I'm not pushing limits.
Paul Epstein:
Welcome to Playmakers. I'm your host, Paul Epstein, 15 year NFL and NBA business exec, widely known as the 49ers why coach, now your coach. Join me on this journey from why to purpose to impact. The key to it all? Taking action. Prepare to get tactical as our guests share their daily playbook where purpose no longer has to be a distant north star, it can become a 365 way of life. Let's go.
Paul Epstein:
Playmakers, it's about that time to welcome Joe De Sena into the conversation. Joe is the founder and CEO of Spartan, the world's leading endurance sports brand. In a journey that started in the same neighborhood as Goodfellas, with direct mob influence, to Wall Street, to a farm in rural Vermont, where Joe discovered his passion for adventure races and endurance events. It was there that Spartan Race was born. Now a multiple time New York Times bestselling author and host of CNBC's new show, No Retreat: Business Bootcamp, Joe's work has been featured in Business Insider, Men's Health, Inc., Forbes, ESPN and the Joe Rogan Experience. Bottom line, Joe builds unbreakable humans by foregoing comfort, committing to courage and conquering any challenge in his path. Buckle up, and let's welcome Joe De Sena into the Playmakers Podcast. Joe, welcome to Playmakers. How are you doing?
Joe De Sena:
Thanks for having me. This is awesome. I can't get anybody to talk to me. So I'm psyched that we're on Playmakers.
Paul Epstein:
Oh, far from the truth, my man. Let's actually start with something that's pretty hot off the press. So at the time that we're getting into this, he just had a show which I absolutely love. And I believe you're about three eps in now. By the time this launches, maybe more. But talk to us about No Retreat in Business Bootcamp. That's something that I love the mission of it. It's something that's unique and different. So I would just love to kind of get that backstage pass for all of our playmakers on what inspired the show, and what are you looking to deliver to everybody that's tapping into that community?
Joe De Sena:
Yeah, basically my whole life has been a no retreat. I'm trying to make myself better every day. I'm trying to make people around me better. My mom and dad did it to me. My mother pushed me. My father pushed me to ridiculous levels. And if you're in the outside looking in, when somebody's being pushed, you might say, "Oh, gee, they've gone too far." But the reality is, we are capable of going so much further than we do, especially in this day and age. When I think back to the 1800s, I read an article by the way, in the early 1900s, President Roosevelt had a buddy who was in Oklahoma, true story. And he was taking a train. Roosevelt's buddy was taking a train to Washington DC to see the president. So he says to his two boys, who are like 13 and 9, or maybe even 10 and 8. And he says, "Saddle up your horses, meet me in Washington, DC. I'm taking the train."
Joe De Sena:
And the two young boys ride horses from Oklahoma to Washington DC. And along the way, the press, you can Google it, the press picks up the story every town they stop in. And I guess my point is, we used to do so much more. Our comfort zones were so much wider than they are today. And so, I try to push people to that place where we came from. In doing so, a lot of people raise an eyebrow and say, "Geez, pushing too far." But we all become better, businesses become better for it. That's what the show's about. Families become better. Individuals become better. Kids become better. I don't just focus on business, I torture everybody.
Paul Epstein:
Yeah. And you don't use that word lightly. All right. I love where you're bringing this. So let me ask you this. Well, look, we all have a gift. We all have a superpower. I think one of yours is mental toughness, as I just know you absorb everything that you're putting out there. I view you as one of the most mentally tough people that I can come across. And so my question is, you brought up your parents earlier, maybe that's where it comes from. What's the origin of the toughness? How did you become so mentally tough?
Joe De Sena:
Well, I think you got to practice it. First off, when we come into the world, when we're born, we're all mentally tough. The babies in the 1800s were the same as the babies today. Go back 2,500 years, the babies were the same. They were no different. What was different was the way they lived after they were born. Were they coddled? Did they live on Park Avenue? Was the room climate controlled? Did they tap Uber Eats to deliver junk food for them? We learn helplessness all day, every day. And so, what's possible doesn't become what's reality.
Joe De Sena:
And I guess I got lucky. I grew up in a neighborhood, if you saw the movie Goodfellas, I grew up in the neighborhood where Goodfellas was filmed, it was depicted. This neighborhood was of organized crime. And local business owners, restaurants, masonry yard, et cetera. And everybody was a hustler. Everybody was gritty. You had to be. Most guys went to jail. That was like going to college. It's not even a joke. You had to do your time in jail. And then my mother gets into yoga, meditation, health food, and I watch her fast, not eat, fast and meditate for 30 days straight. And she then she introduces me to a run in Queens, New York, not far from where we lived. It's a 3,100 mile run around a one mile loop. Talk about mentally tough.
Paul Epstein:
Holy smokes.
Joe De Sena:
And it was put on by her guru, a Yogi who wanted to show what people were possible. 50, 60 miles a day for 50, 60 days straight. So Joe, where'd you pick up this mentally tough mind? It's really what you're introduced to as a kid.
Paul Epstein:
Yeah. And I know that's even the spirit of your latest book you really wrote, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's all about resilience. But you kind of put the family spin on it. It was more about parenting and raising. So talk to us about that. You've shared a bit about how you were raised. What are you trying to pay forward? In the sense of, a lot of this came during the pandemic, and I know we were very disconnected. And so I've heard a lot of talks of yours that probed into that. But if you could say, this is the current state of where I see our youth and our mindsets now, and this is where I'd like to get it. Walk us through that transformation.
Joe De Sena:
Well, again, when the child is born, male or female. They're gritty, they're resilient. But then we put governors on them, right? Don't get dirty. Don't get dirty. Can't go outside. Don't do that. Ooh, it's too dangerous. The kids don't make any decisions anymore. They don't go outside. They have zero time. And by the way, I wrote a book on it. I talk about it on your podcast. I still make these mistakes. In this environment we live in, we are over parenting, over coddling, overfeeding, under pushing our kids.
Joe De Sena:
I was in a workout yesterday with my daughters in the morning. My boys wrestle every morning. They might as well be with Rocky Balboa. I mean, they are getting killed every morning. And the girls are falling behind. So I started pushing the girls to do, I don't want the girls to fall behind. And I was watching their workout yesterday. And I thought, gee, the coach is doing a great job, but he's not pushing them that hard. This is kind of a soft workout. If you saw the boys. But it's the world this coach lives in. We all live in this world, oh, we can't. It's okay. They could run kind of slow. Run slow for three minutes? I said, "Let's run slow for three miles. What are we doing for three minutes on a trail? Are you kidding me? What kind of workout is this?" So anyway, we're creating a bunch of soft marshmallows as kids. That's what we're doing.
Paul Epstein:
Yeah. I've actually heard you talk about that as well. So for all Playmakers that aren't familiar with the marshmallow story, tell us about that. And I know it's even had an influence inside of your home.
Joe De Sena:
Well, 1972, Professor Walter Mischel at Stanford University takes a bunch of kids, puts them in cubicles, offers every kid a marshmallow. Puts it in front of them and says, "Look, you could have that marshmallow now, you could eat it. Or, if you wait, if you abstain from eating it, I'll come back and give you two marshmallows. Most of the kids eat the marshmallow. They don't have the fortitude, the willpower. They end up eating the marshmallows. Some of the kids hold out and they get two marshmallows. They followed the kids for 30 years. And what they found were the kids that were able to hold back and not eat the marshmallow, not take the cookie, they had better lives. They had better SAT scores. Everything in their life was better, better marriages, better houses, better job. Everything in their life was better.
Joe De Sena:
So no surprise. If you're the person that constantly hits the snooze button, if you're the person that stays up late with the extra glass of wine, eats the extra cookie. If you have no self control, you're not going to be as successful. And you know, that's another thing to teach to kids. I had my older son this past week, they were cutting weight for wrestling, which means he's not eating for a couple of days. And he was getting miserable, and he was tossing and turning and complaining. "Can't you change my weight?" Of course, we could change your weight, but you didn't commit to changing your weight. You committed to making weight.
Joe De Sena:
The neuroscientists I talk to, you're going to love this. The neuroscientists I talk to say, between those ages of 10 and 20 years old, maybe even lower, like 7 to 10 years old, the kids that take on hard challenges in the example I just gave of my son cutting weight, the kids that take on those challenges and then complete the job, in other words, make it to the end, to the finish line, they leave marks in the brain. They literally leave lines that look like train tracks. The kids that don't, had my son quit and changed the weight to make it easier for himself. It leaves a gap in the brain that the neuroscientists see. And so, not only are you teaching resilience, it's changing your biology to finish the task at hand and not quit.
Paul Epstein:
Yeah. I love it because you're talking a lot about how we're trying to pay this forward, how we're leaving people better than we found it. I know, from what I've studied it on your purpose, that your purpose is to help people. And so I want to talk about, you mentioned the Goodfellas area. And so, on studying you, knowing you, there are some stories that lead to a pool business. Talk to us about how you got involved. So from that neighborhood that you described, because I think this is all connected. This is why you're on the mission that you're on. Some of this early perspective and advice that you got, some of these values that were formed at a very early age. So talk to us about that origin story. What you learned from, let's call them a mentor for now, I'll let you kind of color it. But it leads to a pool business. And then we'll go from there.
Joe De Sena:
Yeah. So my father was having tough times. It was the late '70s, early '80s. And my neighbor's the head of the banana organized crime family. He sees my parents getting divorced. My father's having tough times. And he says, "Hey, come over on Saturday. I'll pay you to clean my pool." I show up and he says, "Sit down. I'm going to teach you three lessons before we get started here. Number one, on time is late. You're supposed to be here at eight o'clock, you get here at 07:45. Number two, you better go above and beyond. If I tell you to clean the pool, I want you to straighten up the lawn furniture, clean up the shed, do things I'm not paying you for, but make yourself invaluable. Number three, don't ask for money. Even though you're doing a service and you're supposed to get paid, don't have your hand out. Too many people have their hands out. You'll get paid if you do a good job."
Joe De Sena:
And those three lessons stuck with me forever. And because I did them, because I showed up early, because I went above and beyond, because I didn't ask for money, I went from not knowing what the hell I was doing to 750 customers by the time I graduated college. I paid for college. It was unbelievable. And it's so simple to do really well in business just by doing that.
Paul Epstein:
Yeah. So what's the connection between, so you're running this, many would say thriving. You've become this serial entrepreneur. You're in this pool business, regardless of how you got into to it. And then you end up on Wall Street. What was that transition?
Joe De Sena:
Well, I had a buddy that was pushing me nonstop, "Get out of the pool business. Get out of construction. Get out of the neighborhood. You got to go to New York. You go to New York city, that's where the money is. That's where the big folks are." And I eventually pulled the trigger, went on a bunch of interviews and landed a job on Wall Street. I had like a decade long run. I made some money. My goal was never to make a fortune. My goal was to be able to pay my bills. And I was getting fat. I was sitting on a trading desk. We were screaming over stuff that didn't really matter, and making and losing a bunch of money every day. And I eventually packed it in. I sold the business, met my wife, bought a farm in Vermont. And that's how my current business, Spartan, was started, was on the farm in Vermont. So it was a 10 year run on Wall Street. I made some great friends, made some money. And now I get to do what I love.
Paul Epstein:
I love it. We're going to quadruple click on Spartan. Before we get into the races and everything else that you have built on top of this foundation, talk to us, more the spirit is where I'm going with this. What is a Spartan? Who is a Spartan?
Joe De Sena:
Well, Spartan's a mindset. It's not a six pack. It's not a bunch of veins. It's not a super fit person. It's a mindset. And it could be a mom. It could be a monk. It could be a Marine. It doesn't matter. If you have that mindset, you get stuff done in life. No matter what's thrown your way, you tackle it. So we've had 10 million people graduate, whether it's Spartan or Tough Mudder. 10 million people. And I've seen them all, all sizes, all shapes, men, women.
Joe De Sena:
And invariably what happens is, when somebody signs up for an event, the confusion is this. Prior to signing up, if you're even willing, is I can't sign up for that. I'm not in shape. And what people don't understand is, you get in shape by signing up. If you were going to be in shape, you'd already be in shape. But most people don't do the work. 90% of people don't do the work. They sign up for gym memberships, they don't go. Go to Central Park in New York city at 05:00 AM, there's 8 million people in New York. There's about eight people at 05:00 AM in Central Park. So if you were going to get in shape, you'd be in shape already. Signing up and committing to something hard forces you to put down the cookie, forces you to put down the marshmallow, put down the glass of wine, go to bed early, wake up early, get the work done. It's no different than a boxer, Rocky Balboa. I was with Mickey Ward this morning. You remember the movie with Mark Wahlberg and Christian Bale?
Paul Epstein:
Of course.
Joe De Sena:
And he agreed with me. I said, "I got to ask you a question. I've been saying this for a decade, longer. I've been telling people, you got to sign up." He goes, "No doubt about it." He goes, "I was a boxer and I was always in shape, but not in great shape. So as soon as there was a fight on the calendar, I had 60 days to get in the best shape of my life. And so, all I'm saying is, put a fight on your calendar. And what I learned early in life was that I had to put, for me personally, I had to always have a fight on my calendar. If I don't have a fight on my calendar, I'm not pushing limits.
Paul Epstein:
Hi playmakers, it's about that time to discover your why. It only takes five minutes. And on the other side, you will better understand who you are, how you think and why you do what you do. Here's how you get the assessment. Text the word 'Why' to (310) 564-7857. Again, open up a text and send the word 'Why' to (310) 564-7857. For coaching after, DM me. For now, let's get back to the show.
Paul Epstein:
What if there's a playmaker listening in right now that is drawn to the message, but doesn't know which fight to pick, how would you coach that person? Walk us through, Hey brother, I'm in. I'm willing to get uncomfortable. I want to grow. I want to tear through the muscle. Maybe that race is not for me. How do I pick the fight?
Joe De Sena:
Okay. Well, selfishly, I'm going to tell you, I'd like to pick a fight with you, whoever you are out there listening. And I can say that confidently because I've had 10 million people do one of our events. 10 million. I've probably spoken to a hundred thousand myself. Everybody I talk to, it changes their life. Everybody. So just go online. If you need a free entry, I'm happy to create a playmakers' code.
Paul Epstein:
I'd love that.
Joe De Sena:
You go out and find 300 playmakers that want free entries. I'll give them all free entries. I don't care. Something in California, out in California. And I want them to never have done anything like this before. It's very bold. It's scary. It's supposed to be. It's doing its job if it is. And we're going to pick a fight. And then I'll come back on the podcast and you tell me, you tell me what you saw. This is one of those deals. I'm so confident in what we do here. It's like 100% money back guarantee. All you got to do is go sign up for one of them. It's going to change your life.
Paul Epstein:
Yeah, no, this is so good, man. All right. This is going to be an impossible question to answer, because you could probably answer it in a hundred different ways. So I'll just say the first that comes to mind. So you say, and I believe you, and I feel it. This is a life changing fight, right? So if I could ask you, and again, this is impossible. Pick one story to tell, one transformation, the person. And not that you have to go this direction, but I heard you in a different convo talking about a 696 pound man. Whether we go that direction or whether there's somebody else that comes to mind. What's the one story that continues to just get you out of bed and fuel you because you saw them transform?
Joe De Sena:
696 pound guy. But go down the list, it could be the guy that got run over and has no legs. It could be the woman that got hit while on a motorcycle that's missing one leg. It could be the veteran that's missing an arm and two legs. But anyway, let's go down the rabbit hole of Chris Davis, 696 pounds. He comes out and does a race. It's a short distance Spartan Race, should take an hour and 10 minutes. Takes him seven hours. Can't get over some of the walls, 696 pounds. I find out about him. I reach out and I said, "Come on. You're coming to the farm." He gets 18 months off work. And we help him get down to 265 pounds.
Joe De Sena:
You can't get a bigger life change than that. I had a guy come up to me last year, two years ago, fireman, veteran, PTSD, not feeling it. Grab the gun, press the revolver to his head. Remembers, oh my God, I got a Spartan Race next week. Let me put the gun down. Tells me about it. I said, "You now have Spartan Races the rest of your life. Every single race I have everywhere is on me because I never want, on my watch, this to happen to you. So, I mean, go down like a woman with six kids in the Bronx. She says her only peaceful time, the only time she has to herself is going out and doing a Spartan or Tough Mudder. When she goes out and does something there, she gets away from the kids, away from the family, all her struggles so much so that she quits her job and starts her own business.
Joe De Sena:
I can go on for days with stories. So I want you to take 300 people. It's on me. I'll come back on the podcast. Actually, we shouldn't finish the podcast until after you do that. And then we'll catch the last piece. And you tell me, all 300 are going to tell you, oh my God, changed my life.
Paul Epstein:
Well, what's really cool about what you're saying, Joe, and thank you on behalf of all Playmakers. And definitely, we'll sink on all those details. But the spirit of this show, it's all about repositioning purpose as something that used to be a very distant north star, which is a very frustrating feeling for a lot of people, because most people cannot clarify what their purpose is. And I'm on a mission to solve for that. I'm on a mission to democratize purpose, where everyone gets a seat at that table. But here's how you do it. It's not about it staying as a distant north star, it's about it becoming a 365 way of life.
Paul Epstein:
And to use one of your words, I believe that purpose is connected to your pain, and pain is the fight that you put on the calendar. And sometimes life puts the fight on the calendar. Me losing my pops at 19 years old, that was the fight. For somebody else, it's like you just shared countless stories of the fight that people have to go through. And there's purpose in it. There's purpose in this race. And I think each one of these people has a different story of purpose. So back to you though, Joe, I see the purpose in starting Spartan. I feel the fire. My question is, in your case, do you feel you have multiple purposes? Is there a work purpose, a life purpose? Do you look at purpose that way? Just talk to us about how you interpret this concept of purpose, and more importantly, how you put it to action?
Joe De Sena:
I think, first of all, purpose is a cornerstone to resilience. If you've got a purpose, for me, if you want to be the best dad that ever lived or you want to make a ton of money or you want to change a hundred million lives, when the going gets tough and it's hard to be that best dad, or it's hard to make that money that day, or it's hard to change the hundred million lives because your business is struggling, like mine is, you can lean on that purpose and it gives you strength. Wait a minute, I forgot. The reason we're doing this is not because it's a day in, day out, nine to five job. The reason we're doing this is because we got deep, cemented in purpose.
Joe De Sena:
It changes throughout life. My purpose my first 20 years of my life was, was I tough enough? I want to be tough. I want to be like these guys, these wise guys and run my business with tough guys. And the second 20 years of my life, or 15, I want to make money. Wall Street. Solely focused on making money. And that was my purpose. And so every day, all day, that's what I focused on. And then now it's been like, how do I change a hundred million lives? So I think it can change. I think most people don't have a purpose. They don't know how to even start to find their purpose. I'm not a believer in sitting around and waiting for a lightning bolt to hit you, and all of a sudden you've found your purpose. I think you got to get out there and mix it up, and meet people, and be an energy giver and just make shit happen.
Joe De Sena:
I met a guy today who lives across the street from where I'm sitting right now, he is kind of retired. He did really well in life. His wife is running a couple of optometry businesses. And I helped him find some purpose today. Hey, you live right across the street. Start coming in this office here and this is what we're going to do. And had he not met me this morning and just mixed it up, had he just sat on the TV and watched Netflix, you don't find purpose there. You don't find it there. Your podcast, Playmakers, is great to inspire some people, but they're not going to find purpose listening to the podcast. You got to get out in the world. You got to go start meeting people and make shit happen.
Paul Epstein:
Yeah. To your point. And that's why when I speak about purpose, it isn't some fufu stuff. I call it purpose in action. Because without the action, the inspiration is nothing more than a sugar high. And so I fully subscribe to that. And also, I want to go back to something you said a couple minutes ago, because unfortunately not a lot of folks have agreed with me on this. And I'm so stoked that you do, when you said purpose is the cornerstone of resilience. I always say the purpose is the fuel of courage. Purpose is the fuel of resilience because if you're going to get up off the mat, you got to believe in why you're playing the game in the first place. And I played many games without the belief, and I often don't get up off the mat. So I know it's not just a hard wiring thing. It's, oh shit, I'm playing this game for a reason. There is a deeper purpose there. And therefore, you get knocked down. And it's not even a question. You just keep fighting. So no, man, I love the whole purpose connection to resilience.
Paul Epstein:
And when I was about to ask what's the first step we should take if we haven't tapped into our purpose, you said, go be an energy giver. Basically make shit happen. I call that just curiosity. People always say, "Oh, what's my purpose? What's my passion?" I think there is a precursor to that. Curiosity. Just get out there. What are you curious about? Within curiosity, you find some passions. Within some passions, you could find a deeper purpose. But curiosity is just much more accessible. It doesn't feel overwhelming. So I love that you're talking a lot about action. Speaking of that, Joe, whether through your podcast or just all the folks that you come across, I know that you're on a mission. Part of your mission is to find the secrets to success. So if you were to say, I've connected with all these amazing people and I've noticed some common themes, some common threads, some common denominators, what are those common themes from your circles on the secrets to success?
Joe De Sena:
So easy. And it gets easier every year that passes because most of the competition is so soft and so cushy, and living in their comfort zone that they're not willing to go the distance. Number one, you don't quit. And then number two, let's go back to the original lessons we mentioned, on time is late. Go above and beyond. Don't have your hand out asking for money. And then the final one, the fifth one, I would say is communicate. Give energy. Just be a great communicator. Be so positive and so fun to be around people, you light up a room. I mean, it's so simple.
Paul Epstein:
Yeah. Fantastic. All right. As we're winding down the homestretch, a few more questions for you. So one is, we've been talking a lot about getting up off the mat, maybe the earlier stages of the journey of resilience. But let's say somebody listening in is kicking ass. Like, they would describe life as they are thriving. So they're on a good one. Now, the battle is sustainment. How do they stay on top? They feel they're on top, now how do they stay there? I heard a story that you told that I love to share with our playmakers. Talk to us about, I believe it was the marathon monks or the monks in Japan. I'm sure you know where I'm going with this, but this story of everything just kind of brought it home for me.
Joe De Sena:
Well, I mean the marathon monks have been in Japan, in Mount Hiei, for 800 years. They came over from China, with their boats and their barns. And they came and set up shop on this mountain. And they were some of the original Buddhists. And they set up a ritual. And so, if you and I wanted to become monks in this temple, we knocked on the door and we said, "We're ready. We're committed." And they said, "Okay, put on this robe, shave your head, put on these sandals and start walking. We want you to do 25 miles every day. And after a hundred days, come back." And so you and I shaved our heads. We did all that. We did a hundred days in a row, 25 miles a day, 2,500 miles. And we high fived and we said, "We did it. We got it done. Joe and Paul are now monks."
Joe De Sena:
And they said, "Well, not so fast." They said, we need you to take this rope now and this sword and do another 800 days. But if you decide to quit along the way now, because now you're in. If you decide to quit, you got to kill yourself on the course." So I think your message is, it's one thing to get in the door. It's another thing to stay in the door. It requires tremendous amounts of will and commitment.
Joe De Sena:
One last story from Japan I'll tell you is Jiro. Jiro is the best, most famous sushi restaurant in the world. And it's a small little restaurant, can't get a table. And if you and I wanted to work there, Jiro, the owner, would say, "All right, start cleaning rice." And so we would clean rice. And after a few months we got really good at cleaning rice. "Clean rice," he would say. Fuck, we've been cleaning rice for like three months now, four months, five months. You don't get a knife. You get to do anything else until you've cleaned rice for eight years. So talk about commitment. Talk about rolling up your sleeves and sticking with it until the job is done. I think everybody listening needs to do a head check and say, do I have what it takes to not only to get there, but then stay there?
Paul Epstein:
So good. So good. All right. Final question and then we'll cut out. Part of your vision, as I understand it to be. And I know you wear many hats in life. But as a parent, I know that part of your vision, and then we're going to tie this to Playmakers. You're on your kids. I'm sure there are many things, but two, that I know are you want them to be productive and happy. So let me double click on that second one. And let me bring Playmakers in. The first piece is how are you creating that environment? Or what are you putting your kids through in order to spark that sense of happiness, to elevate their sense of happiness? Maybe your answer would be the same that you would coach a playmaker listening in, maybe it would be a little different. But we'd just love to know if the goal is to level up our happiness, talk to us.
Joe De Sena:
Well. So I just think about my own childhood. I think you're happier as a human being. I was happier as a human being when I was able to push myself through struggle, when I was fitter. So I was working out every single day because that releases an enormous amount of chemicals into the brain, when I was eating healthy and not filling my body with garbage. And we all slip. I slip. But the cleaner I ate, the more I worked out, the more I was able to struggle and push through it. And then having some key relationships because all the science shows that if we're able to communicate well and have some good relationships, we live longer. So it's really that simple, doesn't matter to me if they wrestle or play soccer or make Cannolis for a living. As long as they work really hard, they take care of their bodies and they struggle.
Paul Epstein:
You know what's really cool about what you just said. And this was a through line of our whole conversation. Often, I think of whether it's a Spartan or just something else. When I think of just when I get in kind of more that battle mindset, it sometimes feels like a solo game, but I'm hearing the exact opposite from you. I'm hearing the power of tribe. I'm hearing the power of community, whether it's race related, whether it's being that energy giver, whether you just talked about how to tap into happiness. It's not a one person game. Most of the time, it's actually tougher to be happy on your own, easier to be happy when you're connecting with people that are like-minded, like-hearted, one of which could be that Spartan community. But everyone has a tribe. So this is so good, man. All right. Not that you're tough to find, but where can our Playmakers find you, follow you, stay in touch? If you want to share anything new and exciting you're working on, please fire away.
Joe De Sena:
Just shoot me an email, joe@spartan.com. Happy to meet, talk to anybody, anywhere. You guys are awesome. And just write a short email, like two sentences. And I'm happy to get you some entries. You, Paul, you have to round up 300 maniacs, 300 playmakers.
Paul Epstein:
300. They got to be maniacs, right?
Joe De Sena:
Well, maniacs in the sense that they're willing to pull the trigger.
Paul Epstein:
They just got to be willing to do crazy shit. That's it.
Joe De Sena:
That's it.
Paul Epstein:
Very good, Joe. Well, from the bottom of our hearts, brother, thank you so much for being on Playmakers.
Joe De Sena:
You're awesome. See ya.
Paul Epstein:
Another episode in the books. You know the drill, if it added value to your life, subscribe, share, leave a review and help grow our Playmaker community. For keynote speaking and why coaching, visit paulepsteinspeak.com. And last call, if you haven't already, take your why discovery now. Pull out your phones and text the word 'why' to (310) 564-7857. Again, text the word ‘why’ to (310) 564-7857. Playmakers is proudly produced by Detroit Podcast Studios. Until the next time, dominate the day on purpose.