To celebrate the halfway point of Playmakers’ inaugural season, we’ll hear from four different high-achievers— Jordan Harbinger, one of the world’s top podcasters; Erika Wasser, a star entrepreneur; David Siegel, president and CEO of LA Sports Council; and Santor Nishizaki, former leader at NASA and Disney Imagineering. Each one has something to share about how they level up to achieve success and feel significance.
Playmakers: An All-Star Mashup
In this week’s episode, we meet four different playmakers, each with their own perspective on leveling up in business and life.
GUEST BIOS:
Jordan Harbinger
Jordan is a Wall St. lawyer-turned-podcast interviewer with an approachable style and a knack for securing high-profile guests. His show, The Jordan Harbinger Show, was selected as part of Apple’s Best of 2018. Today, the show has over 11 million downloads per month and features a wide array of guests that have included the late Kobe Bryant, Dennis Rodman, Tony Hawk, Cesar Millan, Simon Sinek, Eric Schmidt, and Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Erika Wasser
Erika Wasser is a thriving entrepreneur and has hosted her own HGTV show after cutting her teeth as a comedian. She founded GLAM+GO, a salon and blow-dry chain and membership program. Most recently, she co-founded Prospr at Work, a workforce management software platform for hourly and shift-based teams now used by some of the country’s most recognizable brands to manage and connect their teams.
David Siegel
David Siegel joined the Los Angeles Sports Council and Southern California Committee for the Olympic Games as President and Chief Executive Officer for both organizations after a 22-year career with the LA Dodgers. He worked in every revenue producing department, most recently as Vice President of Global Partnerships after spending 10 years as Vice President of Ticket Sales. Under his leadership, the Dodgers achieved the highest attendance in Major League Baseball for five consecutive seasons.
Santor Nishizaki
Santor Nishizaki is on a mission to create a happier workplace by helping organizations increase generational awareness and discover strengths that can elevate people to reach their full potential, something he has implemented in the boardroom as well as the classroom as he serves as the professor in multiple universities at an undergraduate and MBA level. Santor has served in leadership roles at both NASA and Disney Imagineering, where he was an integral part of the opening of Disneyland Shanghai. He’ll be launching his first book this year, a guide on leading and working with Generation Z.
CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:
Jordan Harbinger
[4:38] - Jordan’s ‘Connect Four’
Find the ‘dead’ networking contacts and bring them to life
Jordan uses a method he calls ‘connect four,’ where he scrolls down through his messages and finds four connections someone else might consider ‘dead’— no recent messages, no potential. Then he reignites those conversations, often to striking results. How can you ‘connect four’ in your own career?
[6:52] - The Power of Reciprocation
Make people happy to help you by helping them first
Too many people try to get something out of a connection before they’ve put in the work. Your first question when building a connection shouldn’t be ‘what can they do for me?’ It should be, what can I do for them?
Erika Wasser
[11:26] - How Being a Leader is Like Doing Stand-up
Why standing up in front of an organization is like standing up in front of a crowd
As a leader or a standup, you’re always taking risks, taking chances, gauging your audience and changing course. Whether it’s fundraising or making quick decisions or leading a team, the basic skills of paying attention to how you’re perceived is essential.
[16:49] - Planning Doesn’t Replace Doing
“Sometimes you just have to do the thing.”
Don’t let perfect get in the way of good enough, because perfect isn’t happening. You can plan as much as you want, but planning doesn’t replace doing. Sometimes you have to get knee-deep in a problem before you can begin to figure it out.
David Siegel
[22:50] - Never Say No to Opportunity
You’ll never have experiences if you don’t say ‘yes’ when they arrive
In the first seven or eight years of your career, just say yes to every opportunity. Elevate every project and teammate you’re associated with and watch your skills, experiences, and relationships blossom.
[25:32] - No Scoreboards
Why measuring relationships with a ledger is a bad idea
David isn’t a believer in doing things for others in the hopes they’ll do something for you in return. Selflessness and relationship-building must be real, not put into place in order to get some benefit out of it. That’s the only way truly powerful connections can be made and maintained.
Santor Nishizaki
[29:53] - Embrace Your Winning Spirit
Sometimes competitiveness is a powerful trait
In today’s career market, we’re often told to subdue our competitiveness and focus instead on lifting all boats. But if you’re competitive by nature, sometimes your best move is to embrace that side of you to an extent— it can be a powerful motivator that pushes you to make impactful plays.
[31:52] - Turn Your Worst Moments into Your Greatest Strengths
How tragedy, frustration, and failure help us grow
After experiencing a terrible tragedy, Santor decided to grow up overnight. He used that moment as a springboard to propel him to a work ethic that can only be called ridiculous. He’s channeled his passion, tragedy, and frustration into success.
RESOURCES:
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ABOUT PLAYMAKERS: IMPACT UNLEASHED:
Playmakers: Impact Unleashed is an all-access pass to the game-changers of today and the history makers of tomorrow. The show looks past the trophy cabinet and features a no-BS, inside look into the world of comeback, transformation, and impact unearthing practical tools and mindsets that we can all leverage to make a play in our own lives and careers.
Take a seat at the table with leadership expert, sports industry veteran, bestselling author, personal transformation coach, purpose igniter, and your host Paul Epstein in this inspiring, yet immediately actionable podcast. From stories of total defeat to the thrills of unimaginable achievement to the practices of mastering the inside game, each show will share a high-energy, prescriptive blueprint to unleash impact and drive success, significance, and purpose no matter your starting point.
Meet Paul at the 50 and make a play together!
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ABOUT THE HOST:
Paul Epstein may not be a hard charging running back on the actual football field, but his list of high-profile wins in the world of sports will have you thinking that he could be.
Paul has spent nearly 15 years as a pro sports executive for multiple NFL and NBA teams, a global sports agency, and the NFL league office. He’s transformed numerous NBA teams from the absolute bottom in league revenue to top-two in financial performance. He’s broken every premium revenue metric in Super Bowl history as the NFL’s sales leader. He’s opened a billion-dollar stadium, helped save the New Orleans NBA franchise, and founded the San Francisco 49ers Talent Academy.
He's since installed his leadership and high-performance playbook with Fortune 500 leaders, Founders and CEOs, MBAs, and professional athletes.
Now, as Founder of Purpose Labs, keynote speaker, bestselling author, and host of the Playmakers: Impact Unleashed podcast, Paul explores how living and working with a focus on leadership, culture, and purpose can transform organizations and individuals anywhere to unleash their full potential.
CREDITS:
Paul Epstein:
Welcome to Playmakers. I'm your host, Paul Epstein, 15-year NFL and NBA business exec and bestselling author of the Power of Playing Offense. In my journey, I have discovered that there are two types of people in this world, the difference between elite performers and the rest of the pack or what I like to call those that play offense versus those that play defense.
Paul Epstein:
Defense, always on their heels; offense, on our toes. Defense, playing not to lose; offense, playing to win. Defense, the market dictates the terms; offense, we operate on our terms. Playing with purpose, playing with passion and taking control of our future.
Paul Epstein:
So now the question is, how do you want to play? And here on the Playmakers podcast, we play offense 10 out of 10 times. As we ramp up toward today's episode, pull out your notepad so you can capture all the action so we can make plays and level up together.
Paul Epstein:
Hey, what's going on, Playmakers. I hope you're as fired up for today's conversation as I am because today we're going to celebrate and it's going to be special. It is halftime of the inaugural season of the Playmakers podcast. So typically, we learn and are inspired and transformed by one guest per episode. How does four sound?
Paul Epstein:
Today, you are going to get to meet four Playmakers in their own right all in the spirit of us amplifying how much we can level up to celebrate this halftime occasion. The four folks you're going to meet, Jordan Harbinger, one of the world's top podcasters; Erika Wasser, a star entrepreneur; David Siegel, president and CEO LA Sports Council. And last but not least, Santor Nishizaki, former leader at NASA and Disney Imagineering.
Paul Epstein:
So you'll get four unique perspectives. But the common throughline is we're going to talk about people. As people are the drivers of relationships, we'll learn how to network. We'll learn how to personally transform how to become the best version of ourselves, how to drive impact and how to live with inner purpose. All of that to come, thanks to our four guests today. It's time to level up.
Paul Epstein:
It's time for our first guest. Jordan Harbinger is a Wall Street lawyer turned podcast interviewer with an approachable style and a knack for securing high profile guests. His show, The Jordan Harbinger Show, was selected as part of Apple's best of 2018. Today, The Jordan Harbinger Show has over 11 million downloads per month and features a wide array of guests like the late Kobe Bryant, Dennis Rodman, Tip T.I. Harris, Tony Hawk, Cesar Millan, Simon Sinek, Eric Schmidt, and Neil deGrasse Tyson, to name a few.
Paul Epstein:
In addition to hosting The Jordan Harbinger Show, Jordan is a consultant for law enforcement, military and security companies, while also teaching skills on networking, which you're about to learn right now, let's dive in.
Paul Epstein:
I know right now we all have this expertise on different things. And if I was to say from everything I know about Jordan, relationships and networking are right there at the top, and perhaps you might word them differently, but I think of you as an expert in relationships and networking. So now, we know where it comes from.
Paul Epstein:
What I'd love to bring our listeners in on is how is it applied to the future chapters of your life? We covered this early piece, but now tactically, you say, "Well, okay, there's been two chapters in terms of, we have Art of Charm. We have The Jordan Harbinger Show." I've seen your online course about digging the well before you're thirsty, all of these concepts around relationships and networking. So tactically, what can you share with us about how you've been able to apply it ever since?
John Harbinger:
Yeah, so I really do sort of practice what I preach and walk the talk when it comes to networking. Every day I'm grabbing my phone, I'm going down all the way to the bottom of my text messages to those dead threads where those weak and dormant ties are. The guy you went out to lunch with four years ago. And I reengaged four people. I call it connect four.
John Harbinger:
And I reengaged four of those threads every day. And it's like, "Hey, it's Jordan Harbinger. We met 2017 Cafe Gratitude, San Diego, been a minute. How are you? I've got a kid now. I'm working here. I live here. This is what my business is like." And you get a 75% response rate, maybe 50%, but you're reengaging all these people over time. And as time goes on, you're top of mind for hundreds and hundreds of people. And you're up to date on hundreds and hundreds of people.
John Harbinger:
So I can send them opportunities. I can make introductions and I get them opportunities at an unstoppable clip. Someone will say, "Hey, good talking with you last month. Do you still do keynote speaking or do you do keynote speaking?" "Yeah. Why?" "Oh, I'm going into a sales meeting right now. We need a keynote for our March 2021 sales conference. I want to throw your name in the hat. Budget is $15,000." And I'm like, "Great."
John Harbinger:
So did I just make $15,000 because I sent you a text three weeks ago? Yeah, probably. And so it's a numbers game, or you'll end up with somebody going, "Hey, you might not know anything about this, but would you happen to know if you would be interested in interviewing General Stanley McChrystal? I work with him on his new book for press and you texted me a while ago and I looked and you have a podcast."
John Harbinger:
And so I'm getting all kinds of opportunities like that. And the opportunities that I don't get for myself, I often get for other people. Someone will say, "Well, if you ever need anybody that knows how to build websites," and I'll be like, "Okay, cool. File that up here, and then put it in my CRM," because I use the CRM software, connectionfox.com.
John Harbinger:
And then if someone is like, "Hey, Jordan, I like your website. Who built it?" I'll go. "We did a lot of this with this other group. They're busy, but also there's this person and here's their portfolio. It's a friend of mine. I'll make the intro." So I'm referring clients to people all the time.
John Harbinger:
And then whenever I need anything, people can't wait to help me because I've referred them a client to build their website. And I referred the freaking dentist who's cleaning their teeth, and it doesn't cost me anything. It's like a little bit of an investment of time every day, like five minutes. But the stuff is just compounding over time. It's like if you invested $10 a day and you just bought index funds with it, you'd have a ton of money by the time you retired.
John Harbinger:
And this is like five minutes a day that everyone else would just waste on Instagram. And I'm like, "Oh, who can I introduce? Who can I reengage?" So I do that regularly. And these are the compound interest. So people are often like, "Man, you always are up to something. You're always doing something. You're always getting these opportunities. What's going on?"
John Harbinger:
And I'm like, "This is why." People don't just Google me and go, "This is the guy we want to hire." It's like, I'm fresh top of mind for hundreds of people at any given time. And that's why I'm getting these opportunities.
Paul Epstein:
All right, Playmakers, it's time for our second guest. Erika Wasser is a thriving entrepreneur, has been host of an HGTV show. She's even cut her teeth as a comedian. Transitioning from standup to startup, she founded GLAM+GO, a salon and blow-dry chain and membership program. And most recently, she co-founded Prospr At Work, a workforce management software for hourly and shift based teams now used by some of the country's most recognizable brands to manage and connect their teams.
Paul Epstein:
She has a serious knack for taking big leaps, bold risks and showing up like the rock star she is. Ladies and gentlemen, Erika Wasser.
Paul Epstein:
What started as a standup comedian turned TV host, turned entrepreneur, now on company two. And we're going to unpack all of that, but maybe because we want some giggles, I don't know, I'm not going to ask you to tell us a joke. Don't worry about that. But standup comedian, I'm just fascinated. Don't know too much about it. How did you get into it? Why did you get into it? And for all of us, what's that preparation looks like? I can only imagine. So just talk to us about the comedic space.
Erika Wasser:
It is the most fun thing to do in the world, for me. I still wish that I had the time to dedicate to it, to do it properly or well. Maybe one day? I kind of fell into it my senior year in college, and I got bitten by the bug, and I just really enjoyed it. And it was fun, and it was something that I did it once. It was at Dick's Beantown Comedy Vault.
Paul Epstein:
There you go.
Erika Wasser:
A bar basement, and I schlepped my three best friends there because they wouldn't give me stage time unless you brought people. It's called like a bring your show. And I don't know what made me think like this is what everyone wants to do on a Sunday night. But essentially my friends were like, "All right, well, one way or another, we'll drink either to commiserate or just celebrate. How bad can this be?"
Erika Wasser:
And it wasn't terrible. I had a really lame joke about the Red Sox and the T, which is the train station there. Not my best work, but then I was just like, it just something clicked for me. And then I went back the next Sunday, and the next Sunday. And then ultimately, it went from like, "Oh, you don't have to bring people anymore. You're fine. You do well, you can just start coming," to going to open mikes and making friends and then kind of grew and grew and grew from there.
Erika Wasser:
It was a very strange hobby that I didn't expect to love.
Paul Epstein:
Fascinating. I love that. So a hobby that you turned out to love. Let me ask you this because most folks listening in have, we've probably told some jokes more bad than good, but in your case, this hobby turned craft. It's all about how can we learn through experience and then apply it to life.
Paul Epstein:
So if you could really transport yourself back and say, "Here's something I picked up as a person or as a professional from that chapter as a comedian that I've been able to leverage and apply to my life in present day, what would that be?"
Erika Wasser:
Oh, my God. I mean, if you are a leader, you're always doing standup, because ultimately, you are taking risks, taking chances, gauging your audience and changing course. So everything that I learned in standup actually applies to my life today, especially if you're fundraising, because whether it's fundraising or making quick decisions or leading a team, the basic skills of paying attention to how you're being perceived and making sure that you're thinking through, what are my potential risks?
Erika Wasser:
For me, as a female standup and one that is a bit more feminine, one of the first things you have to do is address who you are. So if you don't break that barrier with your audience, especially in comedian comic clubs or typically like date night or groups of girls or the worst groups of guys.
Erika Wasser:
And so you really have to establish yourself in a way that is both welcoming, approachable, but also at the same time, I have the mic, you have a bar tab. That is our relationship for the next 15 minutes. Don't fuck with me.
Paul Epstein:
That's a mic drop. No pun intended. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, in many ways, of course, I know your approach. You brought up more the feminine side, but I think from a human holistic level, so many folks listening in can a hundred percent resonate with that. So let me ask you this. One of the first things you brought up, that what you took from that chapter tied to leadership, and the first words out of your mouth were taking risks.
Paul Epstein:
So if I was to ask you, journey from start to present day, biggest risk you've taken and why did you take that risk?
Erika Wasser:
Well, it might be this podcasting because you asked. We'll see. Biggest risks I've taken and why? God, that's a tough one. I know this sounds crazy, but I don't register risk in a way that makes sense, which I think is why.
Paul Epstein:
Okay. So how do you view risk then? Just talk to us about your version of risk and then we can pull it out from there.
Erika Wasser:
So my version of risk is that within reason, it doesn't really exist. And that you make the best decisions you can with the information that you have and you can't be so tied to the outcome that it affects the way you behave today.
Paul Epstein:
Ah, love that.
Erika Wasser:
If it blows up and it totally sucks, everything does sometimes. You fix it. You change course. You leave the first business and you learn from it, and you start the next business. You can only have regrets on the things you didn't do.
Paul Epstein:
Yes.
Erika Wasser:
And so, if that is true, then the risk is somewhat manmade. But I am also a young, single person. I don't have kids. I don't have a spouse. As you grow, as you age, and you have more to lose, I'm sure that my ideas on risk will change. When I started my first business when I was 26, the most somebody could put a lien on was my iPod. And you know what I mean?
Paul Epstein:
Oh, my goodness. I feel you.
Erika Wasser:
And I wish I could tell you I was in a much different financial situation at 33, but I now have an iPad too.
Paul Epstein:
Evolution at its finest, folks. Love that. So let me ask you this, the way that you're approaching risk and push back if maybe I'm mischaracterizing it. But I see it as, and I actually look at the world in a very similar way that you do, even you can say at a different chapter of life, different stage of life, especially like you said, I'm a new dad. And so I do see the world in a different way versus six months ago, two years ago, 10 years ago.
Paul Epstein:
But that said, I am who I am. I've got a consistent purpose and values, and I make decisions in a similar way. I've tweaked it. But I haven't changed who I am. I'm still authentic to my core. So back to you, the way you're approaching it, I think of as some people take risks so serious. They get paralyzed, if you will, versus I viewed your take very refreshing, light.
Paul Epstein:
And so if I was to say, "All right, it's a mindset on how you approach risk versus other people." So what are some practical ways for every Playmaker listening in? If they say, "I want to approach risk in a similar way with a similar lens as you do, what are some practical ways that I could start to apply that?
Erika Wasser:
Don't let good enough get in the way of perfect because perfect is not happening. And my co-founder would kill me for saying this because this is probably his least favorite thing about me. But you can plan as much as you want, but planning doesn't replace doing. Sometimes you just have to do the thing and then be knee-deep and then you figure it out.
Erika Wasser:
Say yes to the contract that you're way too small for. Say yes to jumping off a cliff even though like I barely can use technology myself, start a tech company. It's just the way that I think about it is, "Okay, well, if I don't do it, what am I going to be doing?"
Erika Wasser:
This sounds a little morbid, but you've never read like a autobiography of someone super elderly or gone into a nursing home and done community service with someone on the brink of dust and heard them go, "Well, I'm really pissed I did all of those things," because at the end of the day, the reality of life is risk is a construct that essentially is just opportunity, cost and fear.
Erika Wasser:
And so if you think of it that way, I don't know.
Paul Epstein:
I understand everything you're saying. And it ties now to what we could call your more recent chapters where the world is going to brand you as an entrepreneur. And I do want to talk a bit about GLAM+GO and now Prospr, but the big plunge of betting on yourself, getting into this entrepreneurial space, it takes a special person. It takes a special character. Not everybody is willing to "take that risk."
Paul Epstein:
But you did not once but twice, and maybe you'll continue to do it and evolve for the rest of life. So if I was to ask you, where does that come from in the sense of taking that leap? And I know just Google is our best friend, so I can pull from your past. Correct me if I'm wrong, I understand your parents may have come from that entrepreneurial space. So, I don't know if it's something relative to parents, something relative to childhood or upbringing, but where did this kind of bold risk-taking persona come from?
Erika Wasser:
Yeah. Both my parents are entrepreneurial, and so I've watched them take risks and I've watched them build businesses. And so I think having that support system and role models of like this is normal. It wasn't weird to me, or the highs and the lows weren't weird to me. And sort of like, "Oh, yeah, this is what it is." I remember the first time I got sued, my dad was like, "Congratulations. You now officially are a business owner."
Paul Epstein:
Welcome to the party.
Erika Wasser:
"You have officially made it." So, I think coming from that background, I definitely look up to my mom and my dad because both of them are so strong and smart and have been such great support to me that I think that's probably a big piece of it.
Paul Epstein:
As we take a short break from today's interview, I'd like to share a quick reminder to check out the episode show notes on playmakerspod.com, where you will find a treasure trove of key insights, thought starters, and additional resources from today's conversation.
Paul Epstein:
Also, a quick shout out to our show sponsor, Audible, who is offering each and every Playmaker a free audio book and a 30-day free trial when you visit audible.playmakerspod.com. With that, let's get back to the conversation. It's time to level up.
Paul Epstein:
It's time for our third guest. David Siegel joined the Los Angeles Sports Council and Southern California Committee for the Olympic Games as President and Chief Executive Officer of both organizations after a 22-year career with the LA Dodgers. With the Dodgers, he worked in every revenue producing department, most recently as Vice President of Global Partnerships after spending 10 years as the Vice President of Ticket Sales. Under his leadership, the Dodgers achieved the highest attendance in Major League Baseball for five consecutive seasons.
Paul Epstein:
David is a leading expert in sports marketing and frequently shares his expertise, delivering presentations and lectures at industry events and meetings, in addition to university undergraduate and graduate sports business programs. Let's welcome David into the conversation.
Paul Epstein:
So looking at your Dodgers journey over 22 years from, as you said, unpaid intern to vice president, that is a massive, massive journey with many steps along the way. So, you were in the sales vertical as I was when I was in the sports game for sure. And so I know that a big part of sales is performance, there is a scoreboard. How many widgets did David sell, how many widgets did Paul sell, we compete and may the best person win. I get that.
Paul Epstein:
What else? Besides metrics, besides sales numbers, there had to be something that led you from position A to position B to position C. And so for all the Playmakers out there, whether we're in sales or not, what are the things that maybe aren't metric driven that we can do to level up our careers?
David Siegel:
I would say there's two things that come to mind, Paul. The first one is not saying no to an opportunity. I think having an open mind and just saying yes. Don't ask, "What's my title going to be, am I going to get paid more money? No, I'm just being real," like at least-
Paul Epstein:
No, I'm laughing because I've heard this a million times. So, keep going, yeah.
David Siegel:
No, and it's not so ... I get that that's harder to do later in your career, but especially in the first, whatever, one to seven, eight years of your career. Just say yes, yes to an opportunity. And I think the ownership changes ended up helping me because there was a lot of tearing apart of leadership teams and rebuilding, and I just said yes. And so I just went with it and said yes. And those experiences, I think really, really helped me.
David Siegel:
And I would say the other thing non-metric related, and you'll appreciate this on the field of play and off the field of play, is how you elevate your teammates around you by your performance. So it's not just you're in a vacuum, "F everyone else. I'm making my calls, I'm selling my numbers."
David Siegel:
I think caring what the person to the left of you is doing and the right of you is doing, and how your success in the context of a team elevates everyone around you. That I think ... And again, there's no silver bullet. I can't say, "Oh, these are the things that you do." But that is an intangible that people see, and that's just there and people have it.
David Siegel:
And we could probably name 5 or 10, 20 professional athletes that do it but you can't name what it is, right? They just do it.
Paul Epstein:
Yeah. So, you're bringing this to care. You also earlier talked about relationships and you also said managing up, down, sideways. I want to come back to that, but with relationships because that's one of those where, can you quantify relationships? I can quantify how many people I know, but can I quantify the depth of each relationship, the substance of each relationship? That's tougher. That's a little bit fuzzier.
Paul Epstein:
So for you, A, being not only in sales but being extremely successful at it, then being in leadership and being extremely successful at it. If you could coach all Playmakers listening in right now, what are your keys to either building a new relationship or enhancing an existing relationship?
David Siegel:
Well, I would start with not quantifying your relationships. I think when you start putting a ledger or a scoreboard against it, what can this person do for me, you are already going down the wrong. I think personally throughout the, "Yes, of course, you're going to take care of the people that you think down the road can help you." I got that. That's human, that's normal.
David Siegel:
But ultimately, I think at the end of the day, I've always believed that, as cheesy as it sounds, whatever you put out there comes back. There's a million different terms for it. But I think any industry is a small industry, and no matter how big it is, you know what I mean? You never know where people are going to go. And quite frankly, you never know the direction your career or life is going to go and where things are going to take you.
David Siegel:
So, I think starting with the premise that everyone ... Again, super cheesy ... but everyone's equal. And if you're in a position to help someone and you can do it without putting yourself in peril, why not do it? Why not? It's just going to add equity, you know what I mean, with that person, and who knows down the road how that can help you out. So, I don't know if I answered the question.
Paul Epstein:
No, you did. If I could really sum it up, because this is what I heard the spirit of what you said is give without keeping score. That's exactly it. Because oftentimes, I think we kind of turn into a transactional mindset of, "I'm going to help this person because down the road they can do X," and that's exactly what you said.
Paul Epstein:
But I think it's just that spirit of, if I keep showing up as a giver, as a giver, as a giver, instead of as a taker. And that's another way for all Playmakers out there trying to level up their career. I'll tell you, I've led countless folks in formal leadership roles and takers heavily outweigh givers. The number of takers, you are surrounded by more takers and givers. So, you really want to stand out? Be a giver. There's a lot less traffic on that road.
Paul Epstein:
It's time for our fourth and final guest. Santor Nishizaki is on a mission to create a happier workplace by helping organizations increase generational awareness and discover strengths that can elevate people to reach their full potential, something he has implemented in the boardroom as well as the classroom as he serves as the professor in multiple universities at an undergraduate and MBA level.
Paul Epstein:
Santor has served in leadership roles at both NASA as well as Disney Imagineering when he was a part of the opening of Shanghai, Disneyland. Hot off the press, Santor will be launching his first book this year, a guide on leading and working with Generation Z. With that, time to bring Santor into the Playmakers Podcast.
Paul Epstein:
We call it the lifeline exercise. And so think of a line from left to right, left being birth, right being present day, above our peaks below our valleys. These are moments, events, experiences that you have been through in life naturally above the line. There's going to be a positive moment that has molded you and made you who you are today. And on the flip side, below the line, the adversity, the challenge, those gut wrenching moments you didn't even know if you'd get off the mat, but you did.
Paul Epstein:
And so if you could describe biggest, most significant peak that has molded you, and then the absolute low point that has molded you and made you who you are today.
Santor Nishizaki:
Gosh. I know you sent me some pre-reading materials, but that's a deep one. The first experience I had in leadership which really impacted me was in high school. I played volleyball. And one of the things, I was a team captain my senior year. And we ended up losing, I tell you, our first preseason game. And since you're all about sports, I'll give this sports analogy.
Santor Nishizaki:
So, I really cared about stats up until the point I was a team captain, and then I still did care about stats. And then we lost to a team that we didn't really like, that we usually lose too and I had a come-to-Jesus moment. I brought the whole varsity team in the back of the bus and said, "Hey, if we want to really be great this year, we need to put all the bickering aside, all those ..."
Santor Nishizaki:
I love winning more than my stats. Winning to me, competition is my number one strength. So that to me, I had an aha moment. I hate losing back then. And it was a lot more of raw. Now, I'm able to really use it to spring off from, but I hated losing back when I was younger.
Santor Nishizaki:
So, we ended up ... I said, "Okay, let's not look at the stats, the newspaper clippings." And surprisingly, volleyball was in the newspaper, great sport. And we ended up winning the league championship, the first one in quite some time. Up until recently, I think we had the highest winning percentage in the history of the school for our team.
Santor Nishizaki:
So, that was my first aha moment of leadership that I fell in love with it, which is leadership is not about putting yourself first. You think leadership, "Oh, I'm a leader, I'm a leader," I get to tell people what to do. That's not what it is. And you see a lot of first-time managers that make that mistake. Being a leader is the most selfless thing you could be.
Santor Nishizaki:
Yeah, maybe you get the title. Maybe you get a little bit more pay, sometimes a lot more, but it's really about putting other people first. And your success is judged by their performance. So, that's why I really learned how to motivate other people and not put myself first, which was fine. And like I said, I like winning and winning more than my own personal. It's a team thing.
Santor Nishizaki:
And then, gosh, I ended up losing my dad a couple of weeks before my senior year, and that really shook me. Him and I were very close. I know like you lost your dad, we're very close. And that really pushed me to ... I'd say people would go in two directions, right? Especially when you're in high school, you could go down one road or the other. It pushed me to grow up overnight.
Santor Nishizaki:
So, that was a worst moment, but I used it as a point to spring off from. It helped me grow up overnight and I said, "Okay, I can only depend on myself." My dad was the sole breadwinner in my family. So that made it a lot more clear, I better get my act together. Since then, my work ethic has been ridiculous. Back then, my work ethic was good if I was interested in things, but after that, I was able to channel what I'm interested and my work ethic increased exponentially, knowing that I could only count on myself.
Santor Nishizaki:
So that really helped, I guess you could say defined me at going further. And also what made me want to be a better dad and quit working for the corporate world so I could be around more. And now, it's cool too because my first son, I didn't get to see as much the first two years because I was working overseas. He was with me, but I was working 12 hours or 10 hours or whatever a day.
Santor Nishizaki:
And now with my second son that was just born, I'm here helping out. And it's cool to see him smile a lot for the first time, and I missed a lot of that stuff. I was in an airport on a business trip when my son walked for the first time, and that to me was heartbreaking and I wasn't home for a few days, my first son when he walked for the first time.
Santor Nishizaki:
So, I'd say, and then having your kids for the first time and getting married. So my wife, she actually has an MBA too. And she helps me run our business. So that once meeting her and that has really helped defined on who I am and allows me to do what I really like to do. She's really good at keeping everything organized and bringing me back in when I go too far over to the work side or pushing me over to the work side when I'm hanging around too much at the house.
Santor Nishizaki:
So, I'd say those are the biggest ones. So you saw below the line, above the line. And then the year I got my doctorate, I moved to China or I got the offer to move to China. My mom passed away, bought a house, had my first son. So, it was like an EKG that year, more above the line, a dip. So that was probably about 2014. That was probably the biggest year that helped kind of defined the path.
Santor Nishizaki:
And then starting my business ... It's tough starting your own business. You and I have talked about this. It's scary. I was the only person currently at that time working. So, it's tough starting your business but I really went all in, and my wife was the one who supported me. I said, "What do you think?" And she said, "I think you should do it. I think you're going to do amazing."
Santor Nishizaki:
It didn't happen overnight. It took a lot of work, but it's been the best decision I made. I got to see my family and all of the success or failure relies on me.
Paul Epstein:
Yeah. There's so much that I love about what you just said. And so if I could understand it and make sure that I'm hearing clearly how you've been molded from all of those life moments, for one, even going back above the line, it was before you lead others, lead yourself. The key to leadership is self-leadership. And if you can do that, then you can pay it forward to others. And so that authentic and vulnerable look in the mirror, and in your case, it happened to be from a volleyball perspective but it's a life perspective.
Paul Epstein:
And then below the line, like you said, it's something we, I would say unfortunately, of course, share in common is we lost our dad at a young age. And while for both of us that most certainly I pray that it's the lowest of the low points because I wouldn't wish that upon anybody. But there is a resurrection story in the sense of what you learned from it and taking ownership and responsibility and working your ass off after that point because of that spark that you got from that moment.
Paul Epstein:
And then now decades, or however long it's been since later, now you're a dad. And so you get to have those moments.
Paul Epstein:
Well, on behalf of everybody, all the Playmakers listening in, trust that you have made a tremendous impact on all of us today in the terms of leveling up in business, in life, in all of the different aspects on how we just want to show up as our best self. And we never stop learning, we never stopped growing. Most importantly, we never stop creating impact.
Paul Epstein:
So thanks, buddy, this has been awesome and I really appreciate you.
Santor Nishizaki:
Thank you so much for having me, Paul. It's been fun as usual.
Paul Epstein:
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Paul Epstein:
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